How are the Germans so, so goddamn bad at PHEVs?

"bhtooefr" (bhtooefr)
03/05/2018 at 20:27 • Filed to: mercedes-benz, hybrid, smug alert, electric vehicles, efficiency

So apparently Mercedes is !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! a C and E-Class diesel PHEV at Geneva.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

The claimed specs are a 90 kW (121 hp) electric motor, with a 13.5 kWh battery, and about 50 km NEDC range. (Note that 50 km is something that a lot of German PHEVs target, I think there’s tax incentives or something in Germany for hitting that.)

However, NEDC is notoriously lax as far as test cycles go - after all, it was designed such that a 30 hp diesel shitbox could make it through the test without failing for going too slowly. In my experience, if something claims 50 km NEDC, it’ll be right around 16 miles on the EPA test, which is actually realistic.

13.5 kWh / 16 miles means 844 watt-hours per mile. That’s not fair, though - after all, there’s usually a buffer, and assuming there’s a 20% buffer (pretty typical for a PHEV), you’re looking at around 700 watt-hours per mile in electric mode.

Compare to the giant barge of the Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid, at 400 Wh/mi in electric mode.

Compare to the Tesla Model S 100D, which is kinda in the size class of the E-Class, at 330 Wh/mi.

Compare to the Tesla Model 3 Long Range, competing pretty directly against the C-Class, at 260 Wh/mi.

Turns out the Germans do have a sense of humor...

DISCUSSION (14)

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > bhtooefr
03/05/2018 at 20:32

Because the term Partial Zero is nonsense. The Germans don’t do nonsense.

bhtooefr > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
03/05/2018 at 20:33

PHEV for plug-in hybrid electric vehicle, not PZEV for partial zero emissions vehicle. ;)

(And I own an AT-PZEV HEV (Advanced Technology Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle Hybrid Electric Vehicle), if you want real alphabet soup. This basically means that the gas tank is sealed except when you’re filling it with gas, and it vacuums gasoline vapor out of the tank before it opens it up. And it’s a hybrid.)

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > bhtooefr
03/05/2018 at 20:34

because they rather spend time working on headlights that project images on the road.

Ash78, voting early and often > bhtooefr
03/05/2018 at 20:36

Theory: they’re testing the waters and sandbagging themselves, so with minor software tweaks they can improve for a couple of model cycles before doing anything really substantive.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > bhtooefr
03/05/2018 at 20:37

dyslexia is a motherfucker

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > bhtooefr
03/05/2018 at 20:48

700 watt-hours per mile in electric mode.

I’d love to know how fast that gets depleted at 120mph on the autobahn.

bhtooefr > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas
03/05/2018 at 20:51

It won’t, because above 87 MPH, the diesel engine has to run, apparently. And, if they know what’s good for them, they’ll get the engine to the ~2000 RPM and high load regime at which it’s most efficient.

Spanfeller is a twat > bhtooefr
03/05/2018 at 20:52

They’re still angry they got caught.

And we would’ve gotten away with a diesel future if it wasn’t for you....!

fintail > bhtooefr
03/05/2018 at 21:21

I’d love a diesel PHEV, I can have my electric commute and then diesel range and torque for highway driving.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
03/05/2018 at 22:14

I think you mean a futhermucker.

duurtlang > bhtooefr
03/06/2018 at 03:14

The 50 km range is probably based on the WLTP test, the much less unrealistic replacement of NEDC. I bet 40 km is realistic.

The advantage of these systems is that they lower ( theoretical ) emissions and fuel consumption dramatically while not being overly expensive to implement. In certain countries this has a huge effect on how these cars are taxed, possibly making them cheaper than non-hybrids. You also get the extra power and torque. Example: in Germany (with lax taxation) the difference between the C250 and C350e (=C250 engine plus hybrid) is €10k. In the Netherlands, which has much steeper emission taxation, this difference is reduced to €2k. Given the extra performance and reduced running costs this suddenly becomes an attractive offer.

So yes, these are tax specials.

bhtooefr > duurtlang
03/06/2018 at 05:13

The figures are NEDC, not WLTP.

From the original Mercedes press release:

The projected key points are 90 kW electric output, an additional electric torque of 440 Nm and an electric range of around 50 km in the NEDC .

(my emphasis)

pip bip - choose Corrour > bhtooefr
03/06/2018 at 05:34

ze Germans only care about diesel

duurtlang > bhtooefr
03/06/2018 at 06:01

Weird that they’re still using that, but I guess you’re right.